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Reality or No Reality

Café-Salon Philosophique #18

July 25, 1998

No. of Participants: 30

Topic of Discussion: The Politics of Relating. What does relating mean? What attracts one to another? How do we see relating in the future?

Samuel began the evening by welcoming everyone to the Cafe, and asked if could try and stay focused on the topic for the evening's discussion. (The group has a tendency, at times, to stray from the main essence of the topics presented. Tonight was no exception.) Stan then read the Cafe Guidelines for group participation.

The first question was, "What is meant by the "politics"of relating?" Marta feels that politics are "an element of power." Samara sees it as "a way people negotiate in relationships." Another said that we relate merely by "physical presence." Stan says, "you relate as relatives or as blood brothers." Duane stated, "that it's a heritage passed down from generation to generation." Oscar added that there can be some "chaos" in relationships. Someone said that this makes relationships "lively."

Samuel then suggested for us to share experiences of how do we relate in our own individual relationships? Samuel believes that when we "think too much," we can be at war with our selves and other people. Stan brought up how technology plays a role in his life. He sees the use of the telephone, computer, fax, and television as a way of relating to other individuals and the world. Someone commented that, "we are conditioned to use this technology as modes for communication."

Rinehard "doesn't relate at all to TV." Freddi said that "technology can create an emotional distance." Marta disagreed and believes that "use of the computer, e-mail and the internet are good ways to be close to other people." Freddi finds that "emotional proximity is important when relating to another or group."

From John's point of view, he sees there being "all different styles of relating in the world." He believes that we have other ways to communicate other than technology. He brought up "the use of human senses, feelings and intuition as a means to communicate and do things in the world."

Betty feels that there is an action/reaction that happens in relationships. "You have to give a certain amount of attention and energy into a relationship. Samara thinks that some "negotiating" has to occur between two people. Oscar thinks that "civilization is disappearing because we do not relate in a civilized manner to each other."

Brad believes "politics" in a relationship is a form of vying for attention. He thinks that "there has to be a certain level of satisfaction (conscious or unconscious) happening within a relationship or otherwise it breaks down." Some one brought up that when relating individually or with a group, there must be similar interests and experiences to share.

Richard said, "that there needs to be a connection created in order to build, establish and maintain communication in relationships. He also shared that we need to "root" and nurture what is growing in a relationship. Aziza thinks that there has to be "a certain rhythm and consistency" in order for a relationship to continue." Someone brought up that "we all need each other in order to live anyway." Samuel said that this can provide us with "mirrors" to reflect our being.

Jessica disagreed and felt that "one can have a relationship with the self with out another present." "If something happened to my husband, the person next to me or anyone, I would still go on and still be able to live because I have my self."

Someone brought up that we can have relationships with "things" in nature. For example, a tree, the pond, birds, etc. Samuel reminded us that we are relating whenever we are in contact with any object. This can be when we are sitting in a chair, walking on the ground or writing with a pen. We are relating all the time, in some way, with animate and inanimate objects.

Jessica brought up that there is also having a relationship with one's own body. "You can have a relationship with your toe, your feet or other parts of your body." She also said that, "most people do not take time to have this relationship with their self."

Samara said that "there are rules that go along with communication - spoken and unspoken." "One needs to have a willingness to understand and be flexible in a relationship." She said, we need to do more than "verbally communicate" in order for the relationship to work.

Richard brought up a good point. "We are all interconnected and that in order to establish good relationships, we have to be aware of this connection." "We have to be conscious and aware of the sacred essence of every individual in the world in order to relate."

Richard also thinks that we have to have good "perception abilities" in order to see what's really happening in a relationship. Samuel asked Elaine why she came tonight? Her answer was, that she was "looking for connectedness, was here to create context, and for the intellectual stimulation."

Samuel brought up again how our verbal Society abuses the use of words. "Real communication happens in silence and with the use of the senses." Oscar said, "if we didn't use words, there would be no point to philosophy."

Bouncing back to how we relate to one another, Samara said that we need to be "more spontaneous and playful," and allow the space for it to happen. Samuel asked, "why don't we allow ourselves to be more playful?" John said, "because of values, beliefs and attitudes that we grow up with." Another stated that it was a "cultural thing." "A mental block gets in the way."

John thinks that we are attracted to certain people because of things we might like to have in our own life, such as, "one who is wealthy or someone who exudes warmth and nice feelings." Betty thinks that "there might possibly be some kind of chemistry involved in relating." "There has to be an attraction to another person."

Richard said that, "we need to be radically honest with each other if we are going to establish a good relationship." He feels that we have lost the true honesty of ourselves because of cultural socialization. "It takes willingness and courage to understand one's self and then have "the guts" to do something about it."

Richard continued by saying that, "because of the many and diversified cultures, we have become dishonest with ourselves and each other. We need to learn how to break free of conditioned norms."

Samara answered by saying that "we are where we are, and we are learning to know who we are." "We just need to continue accepting life and give and take for movement to happen in a relationship."

Samuel then asked, "How do we envision the future of relating?" Stan said that, "work and productivity will be marked by how we relate and create with our environment from the various cultures. Oscar feels, "the best relationship would be nothingness." Richard thinks we need to "increase conscious intelligence and acknowledge our connection with the Earth."

Samuel then asked if we knew of any conscious beings present or absent tonight, that could laugh at our ridiculous situation tonight? Pause. Silence. "Well," he said, "we all need to laugh at our selves, or I will tell a joke to make you can laugh" Brad jumped in to say "not that, Samuel," so we laughed without a joke.

To conclude the evening's discussion, Samuel asked us to share "what we experienced tonight" in as few of words as possible. Brad felt that we "diverted the topic." Brian called it "chaos." Jessica felt we were "quoting lots of other people." John called it, "multiplicity." Other responses were, "We were not focused." "We were diversified." Jim thought that we "perfectly established nothing." Marta felt that "we were sharing." Duane said we were "masking the topic and missed the subject content." Elaine thought that we "avoided" the topic and that "there was a disconnection in relating." Richard said, "Roses are red, violets are blue, no matter where you go, there you are." Stan merely stated, "me and my shadow."

And Samuel summed it up by saying, "It was like a drunk on The EDGE of the roof." I'd like to thank all those who participated this evening. Come back and bring your friends!

The next meeting for Cafe-Salon Philosophique will be August 8, 1998 at 7:30 p.m at Barnes & Noble, 2915 Pearl St., Boulder, CO. The evening's topic will continue on "Envisioning the Future." A possible subject for discussion will be, "Relating to the Four Great Powers - Food, Sex, Love and Money."

Reported by Alessandra

"Samuel brings awareness to the soul of people and gives the artists who work under his direction the need, dedication, and love for the world of silence and the beautiful art of movement."

 

- Marcel Marceau, BIP 1961

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